Injection Therapies – Arthritis – Sports Injuries

If you ever wondered what could be done for your arthritic joints and sports injuries, look no further. Discover Injection Therapies and how they could bring you a much-improved quality of life! 

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00:00-06:25Dr. Rade’s Way
06:25-14:24PRP Injections
14:28-20:42Imaging and Injections
20:45-24:41Cost of PRP Injections in NS
25:11-28:26PRP and Rheumatoid Arthritis
28:27-31:50Cortisone Shots
31:53-44:39Ozone Therapy
45:29-50:50What is Naturopathy?

Dr. Rade’s Way

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:00:06] For those of you who are joining us that maybe are part of Dr. Rade’s practice and don’t know us. We will post this interview live tomorrow on YouTube. So if you’re watching this on YouTube, definitely subscribe to us. And you can look at some of the previous episodes. We’ll start off with basically telling the folks what the hundi conversation is. We started I was telling Dr. Roach we started in January with no goal other than to unite people in a pandemic where access to doctors and chiropractors and massage therapists and naturopaths was starting to be somewhat limited and hard. And knowing that patient’s problems didn’t go away because there was a pandemic and many people had questions that went unanswered.

We wanted to reunite the community and, you know, stand out a little bit and start using technology that we could leverage to get people together. So we started with the concept that we were going to meet once a week. It evolved into what we call Humpday conversation. And every week, Ben and I come up with the topics. We’ve talked about Parkinson’s; we’ve talked about bursitis and frozen shoulders. And we dove into these conversations, and it’s been well received and people are chiming in. We’ve had, you know, twelve hundred, fifteen hundred views on our earth, on our Facebook lives, which is fantastic. So I always say, look, you know, if somebody is in British Columbia or in New Zealand and they’re chiming in and they’re getting answers, well, that’s something that we could not do if we were still within our four walls.

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:01:42] So thank God for this technology. And if these times have taught us anything is to pivot and do something that’s that you might not do if it was just normal times. So tonight, as we do once a month, we have an invited guest. And Dr. Rade, I got to say, I was on your website and unless you’ve transcended sleep. I cannot do the math on how you’ve accomplished everything you’ve accomplished, and unless, you know, I don’t know. But it was I was I was really amazed, and I’m humbled to be able to be here with you. I’ve had many, you know, call patients that we’ve managed together.

And I’ve always had and intrigued in terms of what you do. I tend to align my practice and make people available to my patients that I feel resonate with, you know, with the highest value that I have, which is education and learning, and make sure that we were at the tip-top of the technology and being innovative. If I had a checklist, I’d be doing a check, check, check, check on what you do. So I really, really appreciate your time that you’re taking outside from your family. And I understand it’s nine o’clock. And I just want to say that that just shows what kind of person you are and being able to disseminate this information. So without further ado, Dr. Bryan Rade, thank you so much.

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:03:08] My pleasure. And thanks for all the kind words Dr Roach. That’s very nice of you.

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:03:14] So just one of the conversation tonight, Bryan, maybe you can tell us how you became a naturopath just so we can have an idea on what’s your why and what we’re just talking about the why in your name that’s not supposed to be there. But speaking of the why, what is your biggest motivation being a naturopath and how did that come about?

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:03:37] It came about like actually, quite frankly, it’s similar across the border with a lot of naturopathic doctors, a lot of us had health issues in our younger years. I mean, some folks it was health issues with the close family member or something like that. For me, I had some chronic health issues. I couldn’t find any solutions through more conventional means. I actually found a fantastic chiropractor that was helping me a lot with the back pain that I was having at the time back when I lived in Ontario, where I hail from. And he actually kind of got me interested. He told me about naturopathic medicine.

I never heard of it before talking to him and did a lot of reading, a lot of my mom, who’s wonderful since I was probably 12 or 13, she was very into complementary health care, used to take me to Toronto, to these health fairs that she dragged me kicking and screaming. But eventually I like to go in and I just kind of came into it organically that way. And sort of like the Wii or the driving force for me is that when I first started practicing, I had a fairly general practice seeing a lot of IBS and, you know, menstrual issues and insomnia, headaches and clearly just more generic type stuff, if you will.

Those are all significant conditions, but they’re fairly typical things that naturopathic doctors would see. But over time, I had just patients here. They’re like, oh, you’re not responding to the therapies that usually work. And so what’s going on? So I well, I, I figure the solutions out there.

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:05:05] I just need to hit the books more. I need to go to more conferences. I need to do more courses. And so as I learned more, I realized, oh, now that I know this, this, I can help that patient that I couldn’t help before and then that ultimately just kind of snowballed into me getting a reputation where I just am known in some circles anyways to be the guy to refer to if there’s a really tricky, complicated case. And so now most of my patients granted about twenty five percent of my practices orthopedic. I’m talking about injection therapies today, but the other seventy five percent is mostly more challenging.

Complicated cases like a lot of fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, autoimmune conditions, patients dealing with a cancer diagnosis, a lot of neurodegenerative conditions like MS and Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s and whatnot. It’s pretty much just a lot of referrals now from folks who are just struggling with their patients or just word of mouth like, oh, I’ve got this serious health issue, I better go talk to that guy. It kind of just stemmed from like wanting to be able to help people, of course, like we all do in the health care profession, but really driven to help the folks that otherwise have seen so many other practitioners and aren’t able to get the results they’re looking for. So that’s kind of what drives me to keep doing all the extra courses and everything that you were alluding to.

PRP Injections

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:06:26] Yes, that’s you know, it’s funny because sometimes you get people to come into us and they’re like, you know, you’re my last hope. I’m sure you’ve never heard that before. It ever,

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:06:34] Ever.

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:06:34] So there’s somewhat of a pressure and it’s humbling to be able to do that. So, you know, to have a practice that’s driven by those types of patients, I guarantee you and I can talk to the people on live on this webinar, it’s taxing at times. Right. And you sometimes feel to not take care of your own health because, you know, if you’re in the profession for the right reason, you give, give and give. And sometimes you’re the one that falls apart. Right. So I appreciate for I appreciate you for everything that you do. And I understand what it takes to run that type of a practice.

And it’s, you know, it’s humbling. You’re pressured and you want to deliver on your promise when you’re telling these people are going to be able to help them. So let’s listen to what we’re going to be talking tonight. So we’ve done many Humpday conversations Ben on problems that we’re probably going to reintroduce tonight with a different outlook in terms of what Dr. Bryan Rade is going to be able to provide to us. But we’ve talked about arthritic knees. We’ve talked about bursitis in the hip. We’ve talked about degenerative conditions.

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:07:32] We’ve talked about, you know, for said joint issues and shoulders. And, you know, regardless of how those came about, people will go down the general road of going to their medical doctor. Right. And the medical doctors path is typically here’s an anti-inflammatory. Let’s see how it goes and the see how it goes his. In reference to the pain and if the pain goes away in the medical model, we assume that the problem’s gone, there’s no pain, right? So now the destruction of the joint and generation, whatever is there, the dysfunction is still there. So the pain comes around.

You go back to your medical doctor and he says, well, maybe it’s time for you to go see a physio. So now they’re kind of juggling practitioners and at one point they end up seeing somebody like you. So the topic tonight is injection therapies. Can we start with Bryan? Sure, yeah, so I referred patients to do PRP to two other practitioners and in some cases the result has been phenomenally amazing. Right. So let’s start with what is PRP and how you apply it in your clinic for certain conditions.

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:08:50] Sure. So PRP stands for platelet-rich plasma. And so essentially breaking that down, it means that we’re injecting elements of a patient’s blood back into the body parts that are having degenerative issues or pain issues. And it’s the of all the blood that we remove from the patient in preparation to do the injections. We’re injecting all the platelets back, plus the plasma. So the liquid part of the blood and then that’s it. So we’re getting rid of all the red blood cells, all the white blood cells, most of the plasma. And then we’re just injecting all the platelets plus some plasma. So that’s why it’s called platelet-rich plasma. It’s just kind of super-concentrated platelets, essentially.

Essentially, we draw the blood and it’s not a ton. We’re not removing a liter of blood or something like that. Depending on the system that’s used. It’s anywhere from 10 to maybe 30 milliliters at most or three to five standard blood draw tubes depending on the size of the tube. So not a ton of blood. Then that blood is spun down in a centrifuge and the centrifugal force basically just separates out all the blood components so that you wind up with all the platelets essentially at the bottom of the plasma. That’s what we extract. Then that’s mixed with the local anesthetic. We use procaine, which is the same kind of numbing agent the dentist would use to freeze your mouth.

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:10:10] It’s just it’s a more mild acting one. So you don’t feel like you’ve got to give a big golf ball in your knee, like if you have a golf ball in your mouth and your mouth frozen. And so that’s mix together. The procaine just makes the process more comfortable for the patient. And then that’s essentially what’s being administered to the joint or the ligament or the tendon or the muscle or whatever it is that’s damaged or having an issue, a kind of structural integrity. The whole reason we would do that’s like why the heck would you stick platelets there? Because if anyone’s ever thought about platelets since high school biology class, like, well, it’s your blood, which is true.

It does that. But when there’s an injury and platelets go to the site of injury, yes, they initiate the clotting cascade, but they also release growth factors when they see damaged tissue. And those growth factors say, okay, look, there’s a cut on your arm. You need to heal up the damage muscle and fat cells and skin and etc.. So in a similar way, when the bullets are introduced into that cranky joint or that damaged tendon or whatnot, then they see, oh, my gosh, there’s a problem here. And then they release those growth factors and help to promote tissue healing. So that’s why we inject platelets into the into the area.

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:11:21] So in that plasma, that will basically be at the top. Right. Once you centrifuge, how much how many stem cells would be in there? I think there are stem cells within that plasma

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:11:34] To a certain memory maybe. To my understanding, most of the companies that create PRP prep kits and there are many of them, there’s a lot of competition and they’re all generally pretty respectful of each other. But generally everybody’s got the best one. So like that and a lot of industries, unfortunately, for better or for worse, but they generally just talk about the platelet concentration. They I really haven’t seen them boasting about stem cell concentration. I mean, when it comes to stem cell injections, like where samples are derived from bone marrow or fat cells, and then those are spun down a process. They talk about the stem cell concentration. But I don’t know what kind of to what extent there’s any stem cells in PRP or say, I’m not sure.

Dr. Ben Boudreau: [00:12:21] OK, so we talk about how you would use PRP for different types of tissues. We mentioned the ligaments, the muscles and even the college joints. Are there certain tissues that PRP is, you know? Better use for it. That’s a great question, is there certain tissue that will respond With Greater results than different tissue, for example?

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:12:47] I don’t I wouldn’t say that there is a more responsive tissue type in my experience. I would say the tissue that has been degenerated to a greater degree is going to be less and really. Well, I would say that in my experience, everything responds about equally well, except that if you have a really degenerative joint like bone on bone arthritis, for example, those are the cases where I just have the conversation with the patient up front saying, you know, I’ve had some cases of, say, bone on bone hips or knees or shoulders or whatnot. And there’s a beautiful, amazing response. And the patients are actually pain free. Everything is great.

And so I have seen that in practice. But I’ve also had a number of cases where all that we see is maybe some modest improvement and it’s very temporary. So in that case, I would say that’s a treatment failure. You know, like we had a little bit of improvement here and there. It’s not lasting. So those are the cases where if there’s a lot of degeneration, it’s going to be trickier. That being said, it’s really interesting. Like a lot of the conferences that I go to had the chance to speak at. Other presenters have talked about the importance of having a good, healthy mitochondrial function so your cells are able to make enough energy to actually do the healing work, because as I’m fond of saying to my patients, I have the easy job.

Like, I just get to stick the needle in the right spot and put the growth factors there. And then your body does all the work, but their body can only do the work if it has the energy and resources to do the work. So if they’re eating a poor diet, they’re sedentary and they’re smoking. And most my patients are pretty healthy. So I don’t really run into a lot of that. But if they were like, that’s not going to work as well. So there are definitely things patients can do to make their injections work better.

Imaging and Injections

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:14:24] Dr. Reid, at what point do you use imaging when you’re doing those injections? Do you use crosscutting? You do any imaging while you’re injecting For certain joints?

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:14:34] So we do have a ultrasound machine so I can do ultrasound-guided injections. And I that is an option for patients. The for certain injections, like if I’m injecting like over ribs or if I’m doing, say, like Forsett joints in the thoracic spine or there’s a technique I use called Untitled Dissection where we’re injecting not PRP as a rule, but like other things like kind of just right adjacent to nerves and whatnot, if it’s over the floor, like over the or the torso, i.e. when there’s bones underfoot, then it’s just a hard line of the sand for me. I’ll only do that under ultrasound guidance because this is the only safe way to do it for other.

And then if I’m doing a dissection where I need to be like the needle tip has to be right beside the nerve, then I’m absolutely going to use an ultrasound. You can’t do that without imaging for something like a knee joint where I’ve injected thousands of joints I, I could do with my eyes closed. I’m same thing with hip joint shoulder joints, etc.. So if it’s if patients sort of know that I do ultrasound-guided injections and they requested or if they bring it up, then I’ll absolutely do it. But just to be perfectly frank, it just it adds more time to the procedure. And my opinion doesn’t bring any benefit to the patient for certain injections.

So it’s not across the board thing. I do don’t get I get super cool and like I always feel like I’m just super slick when I’m using my ultrasound machine and cost enough that I like to use it. But it’s just really about if it’s not going to affect outcomes and it’s going to cost more for the patient than I don’t use it for all the injections across the board by any stretch.

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:16:14] It’s funny story I heard about a good friend of mine treats tons of professional athletes and he was treating a Canadian sprinter at the Olympics and this particular sprinter had torn his quadriceps muscle about three weeks before the Olympics. And there was a German doctor there that said, oh, we’re going to do an injection. And so that was PRP at the time was known anyway. This person, the sprinter, got PRP. Ran three weeks later with what was diagnosed as a torn quadriceps, ended up winning the gold medal. Right.

So that was pretty cool. He was always telling me about Poppy. And I think in the US, what they do is they’ll do PRP to augment it with stem cells so don’t mix in the stem cells with it. So obviously, we can’t do that in Canada for whatever reason. Right. The stem cell issue has been battled for a while, but yeah.

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:17:13] I mean, my colleagues and they’re like, I’ve got to do something else called ozone therapy and which is another injection therapy. Like I teach up annual ozone therapy certification course for other clinicians that I’ve talked down in the States and so down there. They’re talking about like stem cells, these things called exosomes and something called biological allograft and various things. And they’re all like super cool. They’re all ridiculously expensive. But you’re talking about all these things. And when I talking to my colleagues, they’re saying like so like if you have a patient and they’re only able to do PRP, like, how does that work?

And it usually works just great. But like, all the other stuff is just so cool. And they come in asking about it and like hearing those stories from the trenches, it’s kind of like, I understand, like they’re stronger, but like I, I never feel like I have hands tied behind my back not being able to offer those other therapies except maybe in those really extreme like, you know, the Bonalbo in arthritis. It’s just not really responding as well as we’d like it to be. I kind of wish I could get my hands on some exosomes or some biological polygraphy. That’s just not an option here, for better or for worse.

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:18:20] So my experience is like typically with joints, you’ll do one to maybe two to three injections, Max, Bryan.

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:18:28] It really depends on what’s how the patient’s body is responding. So if a patient with PRP or prolotherapy, which is sort of the parent therapy of therapy, very similar in many ways, just not as strong as a rule, although it can work very well for people, just not as quickly and as pretty as a rule with those cases, they’re typically done with a maximum frequency of once a month because, again, I’m injecting the substance and then the patient’s body is doing all the work. And so if a patient came in to the one month mark and I guess things are starting to get better, do another treatment, come in a month later, yet things are definitely doing better still, but still not one hundred percent do another injection a month later.

Now we’re in the third one. They come back and a month later and they say everything’s just hunky-dory. Then we’re done. Give me a shout if you need a booster treatment at some point or if you do something silly and tweak your body parts again. Whereas if after that third treatment they’re like, yeah, I’m like seventy five percent better, we’re seeing stepwise improvement. I’ll absolutely do a fourth treatment or a fifth treatment. One of the one of the challenges I think that exists because there there’s not a, shall we say, a wide adoption of PRP in conventional medical orthopedics.

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:19:45] And I think the reason is that to my knowledge, there are at least some orthopedic doctors out there who do PRP, but they have like a one and done policy that I will inject you once and then let’s see how it goes. That’s it. The question is, why would you do that? And I think the reason is that when you look at all the studies that have been done on PRP, all the studies have been done on prolotherapy with very rare exception. They only do one treatment and that’s it. Like it’s one session and then they assess and that’s it.

I would say somewhat miraculously, they do see pretty impressive results. A lot of those studies, even though in practice it’s like it’s relatively rare that you just need one treatment unless it’s, you know, someone who’s very young on the other end of the spectrum, like, very vital. It’s just like a mild to moderate injury, then. Yeah, I’ve had lots of like one and done. But for something more degenerative, it’s like, you know, it’s relatively rare that it’s just a one-shot wonder sort of thing.

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:20:43] So for PRP, what are people I know, just the question will be what does it cost?

Cost of PRP Injections in NS

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:20:48] An injection for PRP? So it depends on what is being used. So another little interesting tidbit, kind of like a behind the scenes tidbit, I guess, is another question I’d like to ask my colleague to do is like, hey, what do you use? We use different types than this and that. Because, as I mentioned earlier, there’s quite a wide range of many different companies out there. There are quite there’s quite a wide range of pricing tiers. Generally speaking, the feedback I get from my colleagues is that it doesn’t really seem to matter.

Whether you have the cream of the crop, like we concentrate your platelets, like, you know, ten fold, like above baseline amounts versus like we only concentrate them like one point three times above baseline amounts. And it’s from anecdotal, what I’ve heard anecdotally, it seems to not really make a big difference, which suggests to me that, again, the. You just need that little push in the right direction, but it’s a little push or a big push, it can work well, in my own clinical practice, I’ve used a few different types of kits.

And what I have generally found is that they all seem to work just about as well. And so I just basically use the least expensive kit and it seems to work just as well as the ones that cost twice as much. So again, the price ranges. But generally speaking, for PRP, at least at my clinic, the cost of it is for my time and my residence time because my residents, the lucky doctor, gets to do all the blood drugs because I get to delegate that which I like doing blood draws.

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:22:23] I just don’t have time to do them. So for her time, drawing the blood and prepping at my time to actually do the injections, and if we’re just doing one or two spots, we might be able to do that in 20 minutes. If we’re doing like six or eight spots, it might take forty five minutes depending on what needs to be done and ah, the neck injections versus a really simple injection like it depends. And so we basically charge for our time, which generally speaking is around like one hundred and thirty dollars or so, give or take. And then the cost of the actual PRP itself is one hundred and seventy five dollars. It’s about like three hundred and 300 bucks and change give or take for a treatment.

Then, some kits are like three hundred and fifty bucks apiece or some are five hundred dollars apiece. Again, it just really depends on what kits being used. And then of course the fees, I mean the fees in, say, downtown Toronto or in downtown Vancouver that my colleagues out there charge quite a bit more. In all fairness, rent is quite a bit more in those places. Not that Halifax is giving it away, is giving it away by any stretch. But yeah, so there’s quite a range. But that’s what we charge. At least

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:23:28] That’s very good, Bryan, because I know like I know a colleague of mine, an orthopedic surgeon that does them And they’re going to be charging eight nine hundred dollars an injection rate. So kudos to you to do that. And for everybody that’s out there listening right now, that is a phenomenal price for PRP and having it done by somebody Who knows what they’re doing.

Dr. Ben Boudreau: [00:23:51] And especially considering what the possibility is. Right. And Bryan’s giving me the research here and telling you what the result is. He’s basing this price on what he thinks is best for you. I mean, this is it. It’s great. The risk for it is.

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:24:09] If I had I had a injection done on my thumb because I was treating so many people and to the point where I was, I couldn’t put any pressure at all. So I thought, you know, this is my profession, it’s my career. So I went I had an injection now three years ago. I have never had pain in my thumb before. So that’s how it can be amazing. Like you said, you know, it just needs a little push and the body kind of takes over. So that was a great, great intro. Talk about RPR. Guys were going to take a break. If you’re enjoying this lecture here for now, just give us a thumbs up and a few hearts.

This is from the horse’s mouth and it’s a pretty good horse right now. Dr. Bryan Rade has been doing this for a long time and we really wholeheartedly appreciate your information tonight. Lots of thumbs going up. Awesome. I would also take the opportunity to share the conversation as well as right now. Let’s do that right now. Everybody that’s on this talk right now webinar. Make sure you share this episode. Right now, our PRP injections appropriate for rheumatoid arthritis.

PRP and Rheumatoid Arthritis

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:25:16] So, yes, is the short answer, if we want to introduce something to help improve the strength and integrity of a joint that suffered some joint damage with rheumatoid arthritis, you have to be we have to be pretty cautious because we’re with PRP therapy and prolotherapy. Both have in a bit of a reputation, not universally, but people who think about or know about these things. They have a little bit of a reputation for inducing pain or discomfort after the treatment. Sometimes their reputation is like, oh, it hurts a lot to get prolotherapy and then the area is going to be sore afterwards.

And granted, it is sore afterwards. Sometimes it just depends on the method that’s used on the old school method that I’ll refer to. It is pretty aggressive and it is very painful to have it done. What I would call more like new wave or new generation proper prolotherapy, which is which is what I do, or as I like to call it, the puppy that doesn’t make my patients hate me because it hurts so much. It’s much more gentle, much, much better tolerated. However, whether we’re using the more aggressive method, whether we’re using the more gentle method, PRP, by its nature, where it’s inducing this healing reaction, it’s going to induce some acute inflammation.

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:26:36] And most of the time when people hear the inflammation at my joints or my tissue like that sounds bad. That’s what I’m trying to get rid of. It’s like, well, chronic inflammation, which is painful and degenerative, is quite a bit different than acute inflammation, which stimulates healing. However, when there’s an autoimmune condition like rheumatoid arthritis and inflammation and the joint, if it’s well-controlled, aaargh, then it’s probably not going to be a problem at all. It’s like kind of labile or just, you know, if there is pain in the joints, like the more inflammatory nature.

We have to be really cautious with working with the group, probably starting with a really low dose building it up. Quite frankly, in a case like that, I’d be having a conversation with the patient saying that we should really be doing like the diet stuff and looking at modulators and different things to, like, settle things down. That will oftentimes make a big difference with the pain levels. To make a long story short, it’s relatively rare that I find myself needing to do PRP with someone with RA because the systemic stuff generally works quite well.

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:27:35] When I did the optimized thing, I was driving home. And when you watch a cartoon and they hit their hand, you see the, you know, the red. I was like, holy Jesus, this hurts. And I was driving and I was like, how is this good for me? And then the next morning, I don’t know, I got up. I was pushing myself off and was like, well, that’s weird, and I didn’t get any pain. Right. So the next day was like, I call him back. I say this stuff is amazing. But I was cursing you coming to your office because it was just brutally painful and then numbing agent like when you went in with the needle.

Cortisone Shots

Dr. Clayton Roach: Was, you know, I don’t know what was better, you know, being hurt by the needle going into you or being hurt by the PRP. I was like, if I think I was going to do it again, they just inject once. Right. And but anyway, that was my experience. But it was fantastic because it’s worked miracles, little segue. Can we pooh-pooh a little bit on cortisone shots right now, Doctor, because so many patients come in and say, oh, I got cortisone shot. Just anecdotal patient right now, a little bit of the story. I had a patient that, you know, she had like four and cortisone injections in her shoulder. One day she goes outside. It was windy.

The door pulls her and she shatters her shoulder. Right. Because you know what a lot of people don’t know is cortisone, leashes, calcium from the bone. And you can get like regionalized osteoporosis in the area of the cortisone shot. And, you know, in terms of a long term approach, there is no regeneration of anything with cortisone is basically an injectable anti-inflammatory, which, as you’ve mentioned, you know, inflammation is good short term in order to bring blood flow to the area. But what are your thoughts, Bryan?

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:29:23] Yeah.

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:29:24] You Don’t have to be nice.

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:29:28] To go against my nature here the next four years, I don’t know if I can stop now. So what I think like the way I think because I know we’ve talked about PRP and I touched slightly on prolo, but like, I have so many injections in my wheelhouse, not like one hundred, but like there is there’s about half a dozen injection therapies that I use on a regular basis. And when I’m assessing a patient, I’m thinking to myself, well, what does this person’s body need? Like what is the mechanism of action that I want to tap into here?

And so, you know, I can’t do cortisone shots because we can’t use prescription medications here in Nova Scotia, naturopathic doctors. But what I’m thinking about is the mechanisms of action thinking, well, cortisone, as you said, it’s like it’s an anti-inflammatory and it’s a strong one. And sometimes we want that anti-inflammatory effect sometimes is very helpful. Now, there are other injection therapies like ozone therapy, which in my experience are also a very good anti-inflammatory. And I’ve seen hugely swollen joints, usually knee joints like reduce by half the size by the next day, in some cases with just doing a nose on job, but with cortisone, I think the cortisone has its place.

But I agree with you. In my experience, patients don’t really always know or understand the full extent to which the cortisone is not really the best for the underlying tissue like it will make the tissue a bit weaker, maybe just one cortisone shot, or it’s like one every few years or something like maybe not that big of a deal, but by and large, like it really should just be a get out of jail free card, maybe to get out of pain. But then as soon as you’re out of jail, like start working like the dickens to try to seal up that tissue because you don’t want to have to get another one, right?

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:31:11] Yeah, I know. That’s I don’t know. I just feel like it’s a get out of jail, right? This is what I’m going to do, this one, I’m going to feel better. But get your life in order in order to figure out what’s wrong. Get the proper diagnosis. Do something so that you of all you avoid at all costs having another one.

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:31:32] Well, that’s that same idea of looking at the pain and chasing the pain right into the patient. If the pain is gone, everything is great. So this moment is up to and that’s why we do what we do is we want to get people out of pain for a long time, not just short term. Short term.

Ozone Therapy

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:31:51] So Flood Your Body with Oxygen by Ed McCabe Probably one of the best books I’ve read on ozone therapy. Let’s segue into our therapy. Bryan, how do you incorporate that in your practice? What is it and how do we. incorporate that in some of the things that people have in terms of arthritic pain, whatever they’re having? What are the conditions that it’s helped by? When do you do it? What is it?

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:32:18] Let’s go. OK, I’ll try to channel Ed McCabe over here of one of my very, very dear patients who passed away some years ago. She gave me one of his books. So it makes me very happy to think about that Ed McCabe book a long time. So with ozone, so ozone is 003. Everyone knows what oxygen is, of course. And so oxygen, gas or molecular oxygen is too little oxygen atoms bound together, but ozone is three. So if I had the third hand, it’d be really handy right now. But it’s basically three oxygen atoms bound together in ozone. So it’s with the gas. It does. It doesn’t exist in very many places.

Naturally, it exists up in the ozone layer, which we haven’t really taken very good care of as a species. Apparently, there’s a hole in it, but it works that protects us from UV rays. And then ozone also occurs closer to the ground when there’s a lightning strike, because when the electricity rips through the atmosphere, it blasts apart those little oxygen molecules that make up. Of course, a lot of the air we breathe is into singlehood, oxygen atoms. And then some of them will recombine to form ozone. And so I don’t advise being close to lightning strikes because it’s not really good for your health. But if you happen to be close to anything, what’s that smell in the air? It’s like that’s the ozone.

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:33:37] So I don’t well, I was going to say I don’t know who got the idea of using ozone medicinally, but actually, interestingly enough, the person who developed the first commercially available ozone generator was Nikola Tesla, who, like fancy electric cars, is named after. But he also developed alternating current, which we all use every day, like right now, and a whole bunch of other amazing technology. But he developed the first partial ozone generator, I think was very elite, like the very early eighteen hundreds. And they actually used to use ozone in like in World War One to treat gangrene.

We don’t have antibiotics back then. Actually published articles in The Lancet, a prestigious medical journal about ozone therapy back in the early 90s. Hundreds, none since then, but they did use to publish about it anyways. So with ozone, when we can, we can create this gas in a clinical setting where basically we have an oxygen tank with 100 percent pure medical grade oxygen in it. And then it goes through some tubing into the ozone generator itself, which has an electrical current running through. It’s like little lightning strikes if you will. And then it basically the electricity blasts apart the oxygen molecules and the single oxygen atoms and it coming at the other end of the machine.

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:34:46] About 98 percent of all those oxygen atoms recombine form oxygen, just this molecular oxygen with about two percent formed ozone. And so we have this mix of oxygen and ozone and all the studies that they’ve done, like the human clinical trials and animal trials are done on ozone. It’s always using that 98 percent oxygen, two percent ozone mix, but we just call it ozone because it’s easier to talk about. It’s the same oxygen-ozone mix. So essentially, why the heck would we want to inject ozone into someone? The reason being is because from a ton of human clinical trials, it’s been shown to have anti pain effects and helps to improve function as well after injecting into various body parts.

Then we know from some of the animal studies and from some human studies, actually, it has a significant impact on modulating our immune system to ultimately reduce inflammation and promote tissue healing. So the way that I use it in practice is every time I inject either a PRP or prolotherapy with my patients permission, of course, I always followed up with some ozone. And the way that works is if we went back in time and then you came to my office and I was injecting therapy into this, I would insert the needle into your hand, inject the procaine and the PRP, and then instead of taking the needle out, then I would basically use my hemostat to pinch the hub of the needle, take the syringe off.

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:36:09] So just leaving the needle in your hand, I have my second syringe, that is ozone in it that was just recently generated, attach it to the same needle and then infuse the ozone into the exact same spot. So it’s basically a combination of PRP and ozone going into the same spot. And so it just it is so cool and it’s good for your manual dexterity skills as well. I have to be a little savvy to be able to do that. It’s fun. I like to say to patients like I’m poking you once, but there are two different substances going in, so there are no extra POCs and ozone.

Once you have an ozone generator, an oxygen tank is not very expensive to fill up. You basically make ozone for free essentially when you have a generator. As I like to say, I’m not going to poke you more and it’s not going to cost you more. Everybody and it’s going to help this to work better because the studies that we have looking at PRP by itself versus PRP plus ozone or prolotherapy by itself versus prolotherapy plus ozone, there’s been a couple of studies done.

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:37:07] Pairing those and the combination works better than just the pure, pure of the problem by itself, I say if this is going to work better, doesn’t cost you more. There’s no extra poke. So everybody says, OK, sign me up. And so I always combine it. There are cases where I just want that anti-inflammatory effect for one reason or another, like, say, when there’s like a hugely swollen I don’t want to stick in there right now because I don’t want to make that swelling temporarily worse. So I’ll just do ozone with some procaine ahead of time to numb up the joint. So sometimes the ozone is used by itself.

And to be perfectly frank, for years I used ozone therapy like prior to learning prolotherapy and PRP, like I used it for a couple of years and I really resisted actually learning prolotherapy because it’s like the ozone just works really well. But then when I run into the case of, like, you know, moderately to severely degenerative joints or rotator cuff tendon, partial tears and things like I like, it helps, but it’s just not really rebuilding tissue, like, OK, I’ve got to bite the bullet and go do these training courses. But ozone on its own, like, just a phenomenally helpful thing, even just on its own.

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:38:14] So what are the different ways of injecting ozone, Bryan, because you’re not obviously always injecting in a joint, right? So let’s say somebody has a concussion because I’ve heard it used for concussion in order to clear the brain fog and stuff like that. So at that point, like, how do you introduce it to the body?

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:38:32] So if the concussion ultimately involves some type of like a whiplash or neck injury, then we might inject into those tissues, like whether to transfer into the some of the tendons or things like that. But the other way that those interviews with several different ways. But the way that you might be referring to there is intravenous ozone therapy and that’s something that has systemic effects. So it has those anti-inflammatories of modulating tissue healing.

It also has the kid would say, like, you know, you’re flooding your body with oxygen. So it actually it’s one of the few very few ways that we can actually get more oxygen into our tissues. They’ve done a lot of studies showing that when you do intravenous ozone, it increases your tissue levels of oxygen. Why do we care about that? Well, we have these little structures in our cells called mitochondria. They make all of the energy for our cells and they need oxygen. The reason is that if we all just plug our noses and close our mouths right now and after two minutes, we won’t be having any more conversations because we need to keep that steady flood of oxygen.

Getting into our tissues or cells can make maximal amounts of energy. So especially in a concussion situation where ultimately we want to try to rehabilitate those poor mitochondria and support the tissue as much as we can and reduce inflammation. The intravenous ozone can be a helpful adjunct to that. And I could talk all day about it. I did a training course about it, so clearly I could talk for two days.

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:39:53] The reason I was talking about that is that in a concussion, you have what’s called glial priming where the brain is in a constant inflammatory state.

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:40:01] Right.

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:40:02] So outside the joint space, what systemic conditions do you typically see you do intravenously? Right. So what other systemic conditions would you see just to name some also that some of our listeners are aware of?

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:40:17] Sure. So like chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, any autoimmune condition. So like our psoriasis, MS. Ankylosing spondylitis, like any of those that were indicated because it has this immunomodulatory effect, which is really quite valuable for folks who are just wanting to have enhanced performance. So there are some patients we treat that are biomarkers as they like to call themselves. So just trying to have better performance at the gym or feeling better actually on the topic of healing. I recommended IV ozone therapy, pre and post-surgery to a lot of patients. And just it’s all anecdotal, but oftentimes it’s very rare that someone has done their pre and post ozona.

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:41:10] Mean why wouldn’t you like it just makes total sense.

Dr. Ben Boudreau: [00:41:14] Just go to this conversation because we just we’re on the concussion there for a moment. I was just wondering and curious about, you know, aerobics there, aerobic exercise and concussions. Obviously, the research is coming back and saying that it’s great to do a little bit of aerobic exercise following a concussion. Now, if somebody were to have ozone therapy as well as exercise, would that be too much too soon? Or would you normally say, you know, Let’s go through this trial of ozone before we start doing anything too physical?

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:41:47] I think I mean, they’ve done some really interesting studies looking at adverse effects from ozone therapy and bearing in mind that they’re they have very broad inclusion criteria. So folks that are really down and out versus folks who are trying to be as superhumanly healthy kind of thing. And the side effect profile of ozone is very, very, very low when it’s done in a safe way. There are certain ways of doing it intravenously that are maybe not as safe as others. So we, of course, only use the very safest way in our clinic.

But in other places, sometimes they don’t. But when it’s used in the safest way possible, like the side effect profile of the negligible. So I think extrapolating from that, I don’t think you can overdo it with ozone. I don’t think you can over oxygenates somebody’s system. I think that in a case where someone was just not quite ready to start doing more aerobic exercise than the ozone would be a great gateway, oxygen enhancing tool to use because you just really get to sit there as the IV is being done passively. No, no exertion is required. But I think it could be complementary, probably at any stage of concussion recovery.

Dr. Ben Boudreau: [00:42:56] Excellent. Thank you.

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:42:58] That is awesome. So price range on ozone, if you’re doing an injection, obviously, if it’s already PRP, it’s free but free as part of the thing is the needles already in there, injection ozone only versus intravenous ozone price range.

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:43:15] Yeah. So if we’re doing injection ozone only, it’s just my time because there’s no blood draw or anything like that. No resident getting involved there. And so it’s just my time. So if it’s just a standard injection visit, which should be done within about half an hour or so, that’s ninety dollars. There’s no tax on any naturopathic services because they’re tacked up. And so it’s ninety dollars. And then the cost of the ozone is twenty-five dollars and there’s no tax on that either. So that’s, that’s just like injection only ozone only going into the injections and then intravenous ozone, the cost for either my resident or one of my other colleagues who runs the IV room for me at my clinic, that’s eighty-five dollars.

And then the cost of materials for the ozone is forty dollars. And we kind of split it up like that because the people have insurance, then they’ll typically cover the IV kind of like service fee component, but not the materials, because as I like to say, the insurance companies expect us to heal our patients with our words alone. I mean, for you folks, you can use your hands and tools and all that and we can do some things with our hands, too. But by and large, you can’t just I.B. words into somebody. It doesn’t really work that way, unfortunately.

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:44:28] Yeah. Yeah, no, I think I’m going to become a bio hacker and make an appointment every month just to regenerate my brain. That’s unreal. That’s really cool. So guys, obviously, if I’m learning, I know you guys are learning. So if you’ve learned at least one thing tonight, please give us a few thumbs up and hearts. And please, right now, if you haven’t done so, share this episode. This is how we pay for Dr. Reed’s time right now for this word to come out. He’s doing this out of the goodness of his own heart and spending time with us and which I think is great.

We need to get this information out there because there are definitely people going down a slippery slope with things that they’re trying and not getting results. The life quality of life that they’re not getting and going through life in pain, as we know, is just not fun. And everybody deserves to live a quality of life. What else are we going to talk about tonight?

What is Naturopathy?

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:45:26] I want to ask a little bit, because, again, just like so many Nova Scotia fans didn’t grow up with complementary health care providers in my community. There are a lot of people on this webinar here today who have never seen a naturopath before. You were sort of alluding to the large scope of practice that you have. Clearly, injections are a large part of the practice, but it’s not the only thing that you do. Could you perhaps give just in a nutshell the philosophy of your practice and what your aim is there?

Sure. Yeah. There are certain core naturopathic principles that all naturopathic students learn in naturopathic school and hopefully, we all strive to practice them in practice once we’re out in the world. Some of those principles include working with what they refer to as the healing power of nature. Looking at the body as being this very wise organism that is geared at self-preservation, self-healing, and just given the right circumstances, the body should be nice and healthy. And so that’s something that, you know, when I’m approaching a patient, like approaching a case, I’m thinking to myself, not so much like, OK, what do I like?

What’s the natural thing that I can use to Band-Aid this or that? And don’t get me wrong, like, bandaids are great. Like I get a cut. I want a Band-Aid. Persons in pain like that, like you, use Tylenol, use ibuprofen, whatever, or use the procurement or whatever it is to help reduce the symptoms at the moment.

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:47:00] Absolutely. But ultimately looking to see what are the obstacles to this person’s physiology not working well. Do they have chronic infections that they have issues with heavy metals that are talked pathways, all gunk up? Are they putting a lot of inappropriate foods in their system? And that’s bogging down so kind of looking at how can we create a set of circumstances so the body can be as healthy and thrive as much as possible. Another principle that we follow instead is the word doctor is means teacher. We’re supposed to be teaching our patients. And obviously you folks do, and I try to do that as well. But we want to teach our patients, what’s happening with their bodies.

Why are you taking these things? How long should you be taking them for? What can you do to augment your healing? More so trying to make it really a team effort as opposed to just listen to me and then you’ll be fine. It’s like, well, no, I want to be engaged in that process. And then another principle of naturopathic medicine is just treating the whole person, so we’re not just looking at one of the things that patients complain to me about on a semi-regular basis, we’re going to treat a lot of complicated cases. And so as such, the patients will come in. Sally, I’ve seen so many different doctors, so many different specialists. I’m so frustrated because I have digestive issues, I have bladder issues, I have long issues.

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:48:20] I have to fatigue this and that. And like I’m seeing five different specialists and I think they’re all interconnected. And I’m saying like, yeah, of course, they are like it’s your one body. Like, it’s all it’s all literally interconnected. And so naturopathic doctors, one of our core principles is looking at everything together and not just on a physical level, but also bearing in mind a person’s mental and emotional state of health as well. So aside from the injections and the various therapies that we do, we work with a lot of herbs and talk to patients about nutrition. And, of course, like different supplements, like vitamins and minerals, amino acids, antioxidants, all the fun health food store stuff that’s out there. We do like we’re trained in Chinese medicine to do acupuncture.

There’s and there’s a lot of other branches of training that some folks will do, as some of my colleagues go and wind up doing a lot of different physical medicine and body work. Some of them do a lot of counselling. There’s it’s just like other specialists and says conventional medicine. There are also kind of different special focus areas for naturopathic doctors as well. So lots of lots of variety out there. Great. Thank you so much. And that definitely gives the patient a better idea, especially new patients coming to your practice that might be here listening tonight. So thank you very much. Similar in the chiropractic profession. We have those these little diplomats. Right. And those sort of things. And we all strive to be.

Dr. Ben Boudreau: [00:49:43] You know, either one or that Or this or say I’m more of this or more of that. But the truth is, is that, you know, we’re a little we touch on a little bit of everything. So I just love how you brought that up. That’s so great. Thank you,

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:49:56] Bryan. We had a question and I think I know how to answer this, but so some of your treatments are covered under insurance plans. So in the case of PRP, I’m assuming your time is billable, but the actual PRP may not be. Is that.

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:50:12] That’s right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So my time and the resident my residence time, I’m they’re generally that will be covered under extended health care. If a person has we prostrate Westlife or whatever it is. And then but the companies will fairly readily cover the cost of the PRP itself. Sometimes they do like it’s worth asking. And then to be perfectly frank, some patients just kind of submit the receipt and everything got covered. And I’m like, OK, we just go and ask questions and that sounds great. But anyway, we don’t do any direct billing or anything like that, so we don’t get involved with that. But that’s these are the anecdotes the patients tell me.

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:50:51] This may be news to you guys tonight, but we are going to have Dr. Reid again twice more. We’ve agreed upon a time next month and a time and day for the month after. So we’re going to have them in the month of August, in the month of September, if you’d like that, give us a thumbs up. And I think we’re going to address some of those questions in later topics. The question in Renault’s disease is, can treatments be used to help increase blood flow or healing from cuts to the extremities?

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:51:23] Yes is the short answer or I’ve seen it improve, actually, interestingly enough, if patients are able to access it. I’ve done therapy that can be really helpful. I have one patient who I’ve had really bad remotes and had to work outside during the winter and was doing work where I don’t know how this is feasible or legal or reasonable in any way, but basically, it was really like fine dexterity work that needed to be done so the person couldn’t wear gloves or anything. So I had bare hands outside of the middle of winter with raincoats, which is like just torture in some places. I’m sure that’s just awful for anybody, let alone if you know, so much more sensitive to the cold. And so I’ve ozone is really helpful.

But then we actually would do ozone injections where there’s sort of a method where we can actually get ozone to go into the entire hand, basically with just one injection site. So it’s like I was torturing the pauperism with like 30 injections, both in many ways. We injected a bunch of on like four days afterwards to be like, no problem working outside. But Reynolds was just doing great.

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:52:32] So something as ozone can be applied in that case over and above that, looking at things that would impact a person’s antioxidant levels. So whenever there’s any type of vasculitis type issue, it can oftentimes be related to some antioxidant deficiency. Looking at inflammatory factors like the anti-inflammatory diet that was asked about earlier, that can sometimes be very helpful for anodes and for promoting tissue healing. It’s really about asking the question like, what? Why aren’t those mitochondria, those little energy-producing units in the cells and why aren’t they cranking out enough energy?

Also, why is it that the healing time is too slow? And is that because the mitochondria don’t have some of the nutrients they need? Is that because they’ve got to be toxins and then like heavy metals or both toxins or viral overgrowth or different things like that? Or what? Or is there not enough oxygen delivery because the person’s not active enough, which again, is how it can sometimes help in that case, too. So there’s that there’s a number of different factors that I have seen remotes respond well to treatment before.

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:53:30] Right now. That’s great. We had another question about diet to reduce inflammation. I believe we agree that that was going to be our the gut part was going to be our second lecture. I think so. Second or third, we have to divulge too much. We’re going to do some promotion around that. But definitely, that’s going to be talked about. We just don’t have time tonight, Shelly, but that is going to be on one of our future talks. I see no more questions. So we’re going to do is we’re just going to end off your dog.

Thank you so much. I learned a lot tonight. And I know like I said, I know if I learn, I know everybody learned. I have a fond appreciation for Uber learners like you and everything that you accomplish. And to be able to have you in our backyard, so to speak, is is an amazing thing. I commend you for being in the trenches every day and putting your heart on your sleeve and working with these people. I thank you for what you’ve done for our family already. Thank you for that. And if you’re watching this life on YouTube, make sure you subscribe. You can watch the other episodes every month.

We have a brilliant person and this month is no different with Dr. Bryan Rade. We’re going to have him for the next two months as well. And right now, if you haven’t done so, please, for Dr. Reid’s just share this episode. You never know how far-reaching this episode may go for somebody who is just dying to hear this information right now because it’s affecting their life to the point where it’s affecting their family, their mental health, whatever. Right. If you know somebody who is in pain and you’ve been around those people, you know, it changes their personality and they know that. Right. So to be able to have something, Dr. Bryan Rade here in Bedford, Nova Scotia, it’s pretty cool. So thank you for the bottom. I heard Ben anything you want to say.

Dr. Ben Boudreau: [00:55:34] Thank you so much for doing this. You know, like I mentioned and alluded to prior at the beginning of the conversation, you know, growing up in a community where we didn’t have a naturopath not being educated early on in life on how naturopathic it affecting chiropractic could have an effect on my life. And for you to come on this program and come on to talk with us tonight and speak to people who maybe not have heard from a naturopath before is huge. So you’re opening your eyes up to more people than you think is the great doctor that you are. So thank you so much.

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:56:08] Thanks so much appreciate it

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:56:09] For sharing one thing. And I’m going to end with this. I’m going to put you on the spot, Dr. Reid. Oh, boy. If and if an alien came on this planet and you had one piece of the. Advice on how he could stay healthy and one thing that maybe you have done for yourself that would change your life, one piece of advice, whether it’s diet, avoid this, do this. What would be the one thing that our listeners could go home with as a golden nugget and say, hmm, let me research that a little bit more? He said. That’s the one thing that he would do. What would that be?

Dr. Bryan Rade: [00:56:48] Oh, my goodness. Yeah, that is putting on the spot kind of question, I know. Well, it is a tough question and the answer is like, oh, is it did I say something really cool that you’ve never heard of before? Because that’s like that’s exciting. And then it’s already cool enough. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Or do I give you the answer? That’s like the really genuine truth. And it’s a little I need to drink water. That that is pretty important. The answer I’m going to give, it’s going to be a little boring, but it’s at least an honest answer. I think that working with an optimal diet for the person in question is probably the most impactful thing that one can do, probably closely followed by being physically active.

I think that if we were all doing that, we’d have like one percent of all the health maladies that we have. And but I do think that it’s important to work with an optimal diet. So maybe the thing that I will add to just maybe flower that up a little bit more, make it a little bit more enticing, is that for some patients, using a paleo diet is optimal. Some patients need to take a little further into an autoimmune paleo diet. Some patients have been doing really, really well with something called a carnivore diet where you eat nothing but meat. Believe it or not, I’m actually rounding the bend on my fifth month doing this insane diet that I thought was idiotic when I first heard about it.

But I’ve actually I actually feel markedly healthier. I was feeling really good before. I feel like probably 10 percent healthier having been doing this diet myself. So there’s anyways, it’s really about but then I’ve had a number of patients who produce talking about the Carnivore diet. They’ve tried it and they haven’t felt good. So it’s not a one-size-fits-all for people. So I think trying to find the optimal diet based on your health needs and goals and whatnot, I think is probably one of the most impactful things that can be done.

Dr. Clayton Roach: [00:58:33] And that would be one that’s a great Segway into our future talk. We’re going to talk a lot more about that, including the question we had about Crohn’s. We’re going to be talking about that as well and kind of incorporated it with that whole discussion. So this is it, guys. Thank you so much to everybody that was live here tonight. I appreciate you. Your loyalty to Humpday conversation and to everyone tonight, I hope you have learned something I know I have and we look forward to sharing this episode. If you haven’t done so, do it right now and we will chat next Wednesday, 9:00. hump day conversation episode number thirty,

Dr. Ben Boudreau: [00:59:12] Thirty-four, thirty-four,

Dr Clayton Roach: [00:59:14] Thirty four. And we will connect and you’ll know when Dr. Bryan Rade is going to be on next month. That would be plenty of notice whether or not we do webinar again versus just a regular meeting live on Facebook. We’ll see. We’ll get some feedback on how you guys liked it tonight. And yeah. So, look, tomorrow morning it will be posted. I’ll give you the link, Bryan. And so you can feel free to share with your social surrounding and on your website as well. And that’s it. Thank you so much, Dr. Roach. We really appreciate it. And we will see you next week, nine o’clock Hundi conversation.

Good night. Well, what’s up? Listen, if you like this episode, you’ll probably like the other ones. The chances are pretty good. So here’s what you need to do. You need to like us and follow us on Facebook. Following means, you get notified when these two guys are alive. Next, family, friends, you need to share these episodes because you never know. You might help them because they need this information as well. And guys, if you ever miss an episode, make sure you subscribe to us on YouTube. That way, you can watch the episode over and over and over again. Guys, we love you and appreciate you. Take care.